The Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spirit, if many churches are correct. The Trinity is a Family-- two Parents and an Offspring, if many churches are correct.In the Book of Job which is part of the bible,the Lord is compared to a father and also a mother with a womb. "From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens"--Job 38:29. What is written in this paragraph (before this sentence)is compatible with Catholic Church doctrine. Saying that the "Father and the Son are the Parents of the Holy Spirit" is simply another way of saying that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son" which has been official Catholic Church teaching for centuries. Of course, The scriptures are vague if the Holy Spirit is the 3rd or 1st or 2nd Person of the Trinity--whichever of these is true,the First Person and the Second Person may be the Parents of the Third.
11 Reviews
The Pope on the horns of a dilemma -what could he do?
sampson-811 March 2013
Regardless whether the acting and the special effects were scanty or not, the history depicted was fascinating and disturbing. Not many stories about this awful time are out there that I know of. The ruler of the Catholic Church v.s. the nazi madman. I thought the film did a good job of showing the Pope's agony over what to do. Besides the fear of Hitler's reprisals, the waffling and indecision among his own rank and file was clearly stated. The German soldiers may have been played over-the-top in their brutality and sinister doings, but how else to portray these thugs who sent thousands to their death. Even though these stories may be presented in less than a first-rate production, at least the folks that made this film brought to the screen a bit of history that needs oft to be repeated.
Good and bad
dixie-3510 March 2013
Warning: Spoilers
OK, where to begin! Talk about milking it and over dramatizing, this film is trying really really hard. The lead actress is so hard to watch and listen to, she's pretty and I guess that's why she was cast, her acting is shallow, wooden, nothing draws me into her character, it feels like she's just saying her lines, but does not embody her character. Maybe with time she'll grow as an actress, that's always the hope. Of course the director must take responsibility in the casting as he has final say and seems intent on casting cute peeps rather then real actors, though many of the actors were fine. Cromwell is always excellent. I can see why they only produced two episodes. The subject matter is always interesting, well mostly,
It's more complicated than the movie depicts
mallorymay24 July 2015
Warning: Spoilers
For 7 years I have researched Pope Pius XII's record during WWII, concentrating on the 1943-1944 period of German occupation of Rome. I have translated little-known documents in six foreign languages as well as English. I used that background to write a novella, "Silent Rescue," about what the Pope really did to help rescue the Jews during the Nazi occupation of Rome ("Silent Rescue," volume 1, on Kindle). Then I wrote a long book to show the research behind the novella ("Silent Rescue," volume 2, also on Kindle). The TV movie, "Sotto il Cielo di Roma," is well-intended and shows that the Pope would have made a public protest against the roundup of the Jews, as he threatened to do in the letter that he had Bishop Hudal send to General Stahel. But it is more complicated than that.
The Pope and General Stahel had learned from the tragic example of the Dutch bishops in 1942, that such a protest would only provoke Hitler to kill even more Jews. The movie accurately shows the Pope burning his fiery protest against the Nazi extermination of the Jews as a result in 1942. There were three witnesses in the room to that action.
What the TV movie leaves out is the fact that General Harster (absent from the TV movie) had been in charge of annihilating all the Dutch Jews in that reprisal in 1942. When the Nazis occupied Rome, Harster was also in charge of carrying out the Final Solution in Italy, to round up the Jews in Rome. It would have been entirely in character for Harster to carry out a savage reprisal if the Pope had made a public denouncement of the Nazi roundup of the Jews, like the Dutch bishops.
The Pope had Bishop Hudal send a letter to General Stahel, threatening to make a public outcry anyway unless the roundup in Rome was ended. This alarmed General Stahel, who was aware of General Harster's role in the situation. He told Fr. Pfeiffer that it would be counter productive for the Pope to make any public protest. Instead General Stahel went over Harster's head and got Himmler to call off the roundup.
But General Harster wanted revenge, so he met with General Wolff a few days later in Rome, and within a week General Stahel was fired. It cost Stahel his job and he ended up on the front lines in Russia. The Pope had learned his lesson – don't do as the Dutch bishops! 84% of Dutch Jews were killed. 84% of Italian Jews were rescued.
The Pope and General Stahel had learned from the tragic example of the Dutch bishops in 1942, that such a protest would only provoke Hitler to kill even more Jews. The movie accurately shows the Pope burning his fiery protest against the Nazi extermination of the Jews as a result in 1942. There were three witnesses in the room to that action.
What the TV movie leaves out is the fact that General Harster (absent from the TV movie) had been in charge of annihilating all the Dutch Jews in that reprisal in 1942. When the Nazis occupied Rome, Harster was also in charge of carrying out the Final Solution in Italy, to round up the Jews in Rome. It would have been entirely in character for Harster to carry out a savage reprisal if the Pope had made a public denouncement of the Nazi roundup of the Jews, like the Dutch bishops.
The Pope had Bishop Hudal send a letter to General Stahel, threatening to make a public outcry anyway unless the roundup in Rome was ended. This alarmed General Stahel, who was aware of General Harster's role in the situation. He told Fr. Pfeiffer that it would be counter productive for the Pope to make any public protest. Instead General Stahel went over Harster's head and got Himmler to call off the roundup.
But General Harster wanted revenge, so he met with General Wolff a few days later in Rome, and within a week General Stahel was fired. It cost Stahel his job and he ended up on the front lines in Russia. The Pope had learned his lesson – don't do as the Dutch bishops! 84% of Dutch Jews were killed. 84% of Italian Jews were rescued.
Completely ahistorical movie
Zinjanthropus10 March 2014
I give this film 3 stars only because it has a fairly well-dramatized screenplay, even though the story is utterly wrong in the way it portrays what Pius actually DID. There's lots of good (and recent) historical research that exposes Pius's unpious approach to dealing with Hitler. The director and writers of this film should have done some homework.
Or maybe that's what they did NOT want to do? Maybe this film is a conscious propaganda effort seeking to whitewash the church's failure to oppose fascism. Pius not only did not oppose Hitler, he was in league with Mussolini! There's new research documenting that, too.
All in all, I would say that this film is little more than a feel-good P.R. film for the Catholic Church. Take it for what it is.
Or maybe that's what they did NOT want to do? Maybe this film is a conscious propaganda effort seeking to whitewash the church's failure to oppose fascism. Pius not only did not oppose Hitler, he was in league with Mussolini! There's new research documenting that, too.
All in all, I would say that this film is little more than a feel-good P.R. film for the Catholic Church. Take it for what it is.
Excellent history movie
LiamJoseph8424 March 2015
Its very good its Based on Vatican documents and personal testimonies used for the beatification of Pope Pius XII, this epic film stars acclaimed actor James Cromwell in a powerful movie about the great, often hidden struggle waged by the Pope and many others with him to save the Jews from the Nazis during WWII. After the Nazi's take over Rome in 1943, Hitler's plan to kidnap the Pope is revealed as the Nazis make an all-out attempt to silence the one authority figure in Italy standing strong against them. Everything comes together with great intensity in this dramatic story that retraces history from the documents and the testimonies of witnesses that was not fully known til now. Pope Pius XII told senior bishops that should he be arrested by the Nazis, his resignation would become effective immediately, paving the way for a successor, according to documents in the Vatican's Secret Archives.
A lot of people believe the lies of Hitler's pope. Pope Pius XII saved more Jews than anyone else in ww2 860,000 Jews he saved. According to Israeli archives, papal relief programs saved at least 860,000 Jews, more than any other agency or organization. His Holiness Pope Pius XII also allowed the Vatican diplomatic corps, which were protected by diplomatic immunity, to carry messages between the allied powers. Vatican Information Services also sent over 5 million messages for soldiers. Thousands of nun's priest were killed in ww2 helping the Jews. 3 000 000 Polish Catholics were holocaust victims. the catholic church did its best to help Jews and anyone else in ww2 . When Pope Pius XII died on October 9, 1958, Golda Meir, then Israeli delegate to the United Nations, sent official condolences: "When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace." After the war the Chief Rabbi of Israel thanked Pius XII for what he had done. The Chief Rabbi of Rome went one step further. He became a Catholic. He took the name Eugenio. Pope Pius XII name before he was pope. The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the very foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world. (Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of the British Mandate of Palestine, March 1945) During the Nazi occupation of Rome, 3,000 Jews found refuge at one time at the pope's summer residence at Castle Gandolfo. Amazingly, Castle Gandolfo is never mentioned or discussed in the anti-papal writings of many of the pope's critics. Yet at no other site in Nazi-occupied Europe were as many Jews saved and sheltered for as long a period as at Castle Gandolfo during the Nazi occupation of Rome. Kosher food was provided for the Jews hidden there, where, as George Weigel has noted, Jewish children were born in the private apartments of Pius XII, which became a temporary obstetrical ward. (Rabbi David Dalin, Ph.D., July 29, 2005 interview with Dr. Thomas E. Woods) dpexecute in his review he said Hitler was a life-long practicing member of the Catholic church till the day he died. That is a lie he left the catholic church in his teens.The Nazis frequently met with the Catholic church and had agreements with them. that is a lie.The Nazis killed Several thousand of nuns and priests.
A lot of people believe the lies of Hitler's pope. Pope Pius XII saved more Jews than anyone else in ww2 860,000 Jews he saved. According to Israeli archives, papal relief programs saved at least 860,000 Jews, more than any other agency or organization. His Holiness Pope Pius XII also allowed the Vatican diplomatic corps, which were protected by diplomatic immunity, to carry messages between the allied powers. Vatican Information Services also sent over 5 million messages for soldiers. Thousands of nun's priest were killed in ww2 helping the Jews. 3 000 000 Polish Catholics were holocaust victims. the catholic church did its best to help Jews and anyone else in ww2 . When Pope Pius XII died on October 9, 1958, Golda Meir, then Israeli delegate to the United Nations, sent official condolences: "When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace." After the war the Chief Rabbi of Israel thanked Pius XII for what he had done. The Chief Rabbi of Rome went one step further. He became a Catholic. He took the name Eugenio. Pope Pius XII name before he was pope. The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the very foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world. (Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of the British Mandate of Palestine, March 1945) During the Nazi occupation of Rome, 3,000 Jews found refuge at one time at the pope's summer residence at Castle Gandolfo. Amazingly, Castle Gandolfo is never mentioned or discussed in the anti-papal writings of many of the pope's critics. Yet at no other site in Nazi-occupied Europe were as many Jews saved and sheltered for as long a period as at Castle Gandolfo during the Nazi occupation of Rome. Kosher food was provided for the Jews hidden there, where, as George Weigel has noted, Jewish children were born in the private apartments of Pius XII, which became a temporary obstetrical ward. (Rabbi David Dalin, Ph.D., July 29, 2005 interview with Dr. Thomas E. Woods) dpexecute in his review he said Hitler was a life-long practicing member of the Catholic church till the day he died. That is a lie he left the catholic church in his teens.The Nazis frequently met with the Catholic church and had agreements with them. that is a lie.The Nazis killed Several thousand of nuns and priests.
An incredible story told poorly
hddu10-819-3745826 September 2019
There is now enough evidence (there actually always was) to fully vindicate Pope Pius XII and his decision to save as many Jews in Europe through diplomatic and underground means, given the harsh reprisals against Jews, clergy and civilians every time He and the church actually spoke publicly (the movie references the Dutch bishops condemnation of Nazism, and the subsequent round-up of Jews and converts, most notably St Benedicta of the cross aka Edith Stein). However, the film doesn't mention that shortly after the Pope did denounce the Nazis publicly in his Christmas address of 1942 (and the subsequent aftermath) which further convinced him to take the course he decided. While the series seeks to personify the people he ended up saving (Jews and in one case a communist), the characters are in effect shallow and one-dimensional, despite the love-interest back-stories at work. And while it also showed the reality that the Vatican had absolutely no defense from the Nazis and was purely a mental construct (the similarity to Hotel Rwanda was noted) the film seemed to be full of haughty platitudes from the characters as opposed to portraying what really happened...which would have been far more interesting. Cromwell was an interesting yet lacking choice for the role of Pius XII, since he comes off as an American Grampa figure as opposed to the scholar and statesman Pope Pius XII was. Filmed in a VERY "made for TV" style (laughably, the modern graffitti on the bridges wasn't even edited out), this was simply a topic and subject matter which is much larger than the venue put together here.
Little to do about Saint Pio
Srosxi29 January 2014
Warning: Spoilers
Quote of Saint Pio: "Pray, hope, and don't worry. Trust in the infinite goodness of almighty God." So, (SPOILER about 15 minutes into the movie). Little has been seen of Pope Pio, and even less has been said. But one of his top guards (of the Vatican) stated about what will keep the German Nazi scum out of the Vatican was only a "white line." Apparently, if he was truly a believer in Jesus Christ, as I would assume all Vatican guards are, he didn't even consider that his God, the almighty, would protect the Vatican.
The movie, listed as historical, has serious flaws. The movie was first made in 1957 (I believe), but some young director considered that historical movie needed modifying. So, which history is correct? The same happens to our young children in the United States of America. I was told that Christopher Columbus discovered America. Yet, the town of St. Augustine in what is now Florida, founded by Spain I believe, was established before 1492. Or, perhaps I'm getting history wrong. Was what would become the United States of America actually discovered by nomads from the higher northern portions of the Earth by crossing from Asia to what is now Alaska? History never was my strong suit. And thus, when I see a "biography" about Pope Pio is based on almost everything but the actual Pope, I stay away.
I should have not watched the 30 minutes of this TV blasphemy either.
God bless the United States of America, and God bless Texas.
The movie, listed as historical, has serious flaws. The movie was first made in 1957 (I believe), but some young director considered that historical movie needed modifying. So, which history is correct? The same happens to our young children in the United States of America. I was told that Christopher Columbus discovered America. Yet, the town of St. Augustine in what is now Florida, founded by Spain I believe, was established before 1492. Or, perhaps I'm getting history wrong. Was what would become the United States of America actually discovered by nomads from the higher northern portions of the Earth by crossing from Asia to what is now Alaska? History never was my strong suit. And thus, when I see a "biography" about Pope Pio is based on almost everything but the actual Pope, I stay away.
I should have not watched the 30 minutes of this TV blasphemy either.
God bless the United States of America, and God bless Texas.
Excellent history - well delivered
bobshankjr-21 July 2013
Warning: Spoilers
In spite of being a 'foreign films' fan, I hadn't been aware of this 2 episode 2010 release until an old girl-friend brought it to my attention on Netflix live streaming. Dragged kicking and screaming into it, I eventually found myself totally captivated with the history and directing. I've always been a James Cromwell follower, even though he often plays the dirty fellow. But in this release he has absolutely nailed-down a reversal in rolls with a deeply-convincing performance. OK, so there were a few lame efforts from less-than-perfect actors, but the intent was right there in your face. And in my humble-but-most-accurate opinion, all parts were sincere and played well into the story. I thought, in my 6 decades of viewing, some of the scenes were 'world class.' Especially near the end, Part 2, with the Pope face-to-face, alone, with the German officer responsible for many of the atrocities).
Up until now, I had been totally unaware of this side of the Catholic efforts during WWII in Rome (I'm a Baptist), and was amazed to find myself fascinated with the depicting of it in this most appreciable movie. I think the history of this film, and its depiction, should be viewed by all serious movie fans and historians. It's worth the kicking and screaming.
Up until now, I had been totally unaware of this side of the Catholic efforts during WWII in Rome (I'm a Baptist), and was amazed to find myself fascinated with the depicting of it in this most appreciable movie. I think the history of this film, and its depiction, should be viewed by all serious movie fans and historians. It's worth the kicking and screaming.
Fairly awful revisionist film
ThomasJeff14 April 2013
Warning: Spoilers
The film portrays a colorful imaginary world where the Pope was AFRAID of Hitler and didn't know what to do (really the one representative of God on earth, doesn't know what to do? Really the man chosen as representative of God on earth---AFRAID OF Hitler? AFRAID OF DEATH?) This is ridiculous. What we know from history is that Pope Pius kept quiet. He kept quiet not because he feared the Nazis, because there is nothing to fear for a true believer.
He kept quiet because he approved of what the Nazis were doing.
The very ambiguity and lack of clarity of the Church's actions, shows clearly that the Pope and the Nazis were in collaboration. If the Pope believed that the Jews should be defended, he would have shouted it from all the rooftops and let the Nazis crucify him just like Jesus and die a heroes death. What better way for a Pope to die as a martyr than to sacrifice himself for the good cause? It's because the Pope did NOT believe the Jews should be defended that he stayed quiet.
Unfortunately, a lot of Catholic reviewers and apologists for the Pope scour the earth to repaint history in a way that made the Pope seem like a hero who just couldn't do much about the situation. These same apologists try to paint Hitler as an atheist when that is absolutely not true.
Hitler was a life-long practicing member of the Catholic church till the day he died. The Nazis frequently met with the Catholic church and had agreements with them.
You think if the Catholic church was afraid of dying to Nazis, that is insane. The Catholics, if they truly believed they were being persecuted would gladly sacrifice themselves and stand up to those that commit evil (like the Nazis) if they truly believed the Nazis were evil.
He kept quiet because he approved of what the Nazis were doing.
The very ambiguity and lack of clarity of the Church's actions, shows clearly that the Pope and the Nazis were in collaboration. If the Pope believed that the Jews should be defended, he would have shouted it from all the rooftops and let the Nazis crucify him just like Jesus and die a heroes death. What better way for a Pope to die as a martyr than to sacrifice himself for the good cause? It's because the Pope did NOT believe the Jews should be defended that he stayed quiet.
Unfortunately, a lot of Catholic reviewers and apologists for the Pope scour the earth to repaint history in a way that made the Pope seem like a hero who just couldn't do much about the situation. These same apologists try to paint Hitler as an atheist when that is absolutely not true.
Hitler was a life-long practicing member of the Catholic church till the day he died. The Nazis frequently met with the Catholic church and had agreements with them.
You think if the Catholic church was afraid of dying to Nazis, that is insane. The Catholics, if they truly believed they were being persecuted would gladly sacrifice themselves and stand up to those that commit evil (like the Nazis) if they truly believed the Nazis were evil.
"Above all else you are a man, one of God's creatures."
patrickullmer9 September 2022
This is one of the best films I have seen in a very long time. Directed by the immensely skilled Christian Duguay, this foreign miniseries has the scope and ambition of a big-screen epic. I was overwhelmed by the heights of emotion within this story as well as fantastic acting all around from the cast with the notable standouts being Miguel Herz-Kestranek, Cesare Bocci, and of course James Cromwell whose performance is one I can only describe as inspired.
The story is always intriguing, but the most interesting introspection is in explaining how the papacy fought to save lives in a terrible time in which many people were threatened and killed. Though much controversy has been brought up about the pontificate during the Nazi occupation of Rome, many neglect to focus upon the exact situation. Lives depended upon the words (and silence) of Pius XII. For me, the presentation of the situations within this film cleared the air a bit in explaining how limited his actions were despite his power and made me want to do more research into the pontificate of Pius XII, deeply and not surface-level as most decriers seem to resort to.
The best scene for me was when the pope and the Nazi general assigned to kidnap/kill him meet for the first time, with the general becoming confused/fascinated/humbled by the fact that Pius insists on seeing good within him despite his actions. As a result. I was blown away with how much I loved this film. The slick direction of Duguay, the powerhouse performance by Cromwell, and the beautiful score and interesting story of a man seeking to do what is right with the power he has.
The story is always intriguing, but the most interesting introspection is in explaining how the papacy fought to save lives in a terrible time in which many people were threatened and killed. Though much controversy has been brought up about the pontificate during the Nazi occupation of Rome, many neglect to focus upon the exact situation. Lives depended upon the words (and silence) of Pius XII. For me, the presentation of the situations within this film cleared the air a bit in explaining how limited his actions were despite his power and made me want to do more research into the pontificate of Pius XII, deeply and not surface-level as most decriers seem to resort to.
The best scene for me was when the pope and the Nazi general assigned to kidnap/kill him meet for the first time, with the general becoming confused/fascinated/humbled by the fact that Pius insists on seeing good within him despite his actions. As a result. I was blown away with how much I loved this film. The slick direction of Duguay, the powerhouse performance by Cromwell, and the beautiful score and interesting story of a man seeking to do what is right with the power he has.
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